sig rattler vs springfield saint sig rattler vs springfield saint

Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. During our action tests, we landed four A-zone hits on targets left and center. The buttstock, although appearing very much in the M4 tradition, was modified to offer holes on each side for a quick-detach sling loop. But I would take the Sig over the Springfield every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. I'm curious what kind of accuracy you are going to see out of that thing. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. With the Saint Edge series of ARs, you get nicely sculpted lower receivers machined from billet aluminum. The BCM Gunfighter buttstock offered sleek lines with no protruding levers that might catch on gear, such as the straps of a chest rig. I'm having a hard time deciding on which one of these to purchase. And I also used a LaRue Tactical offset mount to install a SureFire M312 Vampire Scout, which produces white and IR light. At the Impact Zone Range, our rifles shared a $420 1x20mm SIG Sauer Romeo 4b Compact Scope with a tiny 2-minute-of-angle red dot. For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. When not at his press or the range he can be found chasing mule deer around the Rocky Mountains. Some of these extras include a top-end self-lubricating nickel-boron trigger, suppressor-ready heavy tungsten buffer, adjustable SB Tactical SBA3 brace and forward hand stop. The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. Thus, stabilizing subsonic ammo not an issue. The barrel is 16 inches and features a 1:8 twist. I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. Jacketed bullets can fragment at higher velocities due to high twist rates. Supporter+. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. Looks pretty sweet . This five-position brace was specifically designed for PDW-sized guns and only hangs 4 inches off the back of the receiver when fully collapsed. Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. One by-product of this arrangement was an extension of the lower portion of the bolt lock/release lever. Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. You have entered an incorrect email address! In the same breath, the gun is compact enough to enhance its nimbleness, yet big enough to ensure the cartridges ballistic integrity. Hornadys 110-grain V-MAX bullet penetrated 26 inches and retained 88.7 grains of its original bullet weight. New Shooters Guide: What Is a Pistol Caliber Carbine? We applied a snap-on buttpad from Limbsaver and was pleasantly surprised at how much more comfortable it was to shoot. Suppressed, the Rattler ran everything on the supersonic setting (less gas). Whereas the SIG Sauer presented direct pressure against a solid object, the Saints trigger offered a subtle compression before reaching its breaking point. The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. Knowing this, I still was dubious when I picked up the PDW from my local FFL. FIRST LOOK: Sig Sauer MCX Rattler, the Worlds Smallest Rifle. models. Essentially, this makes the suppressors job easier, since it has less expanding gas to dissipate. Keeping all the shots inside the A-zone was important, but for our purposes we wanted to know what characteristics were helping or hindering the shooter. That saint victor is 400 above msrp though. Nice Sig collection BET7, And I also play the field , I really like my Black Rain Ordnance 5.56 , I would like to add a couple more Black Rains to my collection . So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . Also, its loaded with frills not often found at this price point. The M400 tread is sort of a gimmicky rifle from Sig. The first was the SilencerCo Omega 9K, which is only 4.7 inches long and weighs 7.2 ounces. At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. In our view, the advertising campaign that preceded the Saints introduction underscored that the AR-15 is not just for the military. Our days at the range were somewhat windy, so waiting for a lull before releasing a shot was standard procedure. Featured one of the most consistent triggers weve tried and costly ambidextrous controls. No problems except for the gas blowback. As such, the challenge for Springfield Armory was to offer an AR-15 that distinguished itself from the competition and was affordably priced. One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly. ". Springfield Armory's $899 Saint, the manufacturer's first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. For example, Ive seen U.S. Department of State Diplomatic Security Service special agents wielding them in the field when guarding high-value targets. Thanks to the precise trigger, the shooter always felt he was in complete control. Ben Voss FN Product Manager talks about the new FN SCAR 15P ultra-compact rifle-caliber pistol at SHOT Show 2023. For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). In use, it seemed to all but disappear. For an AR, it conceals and transports incredibly well, is surprisingly soft-shooting, accurate and reliable, unique and fun. That's a $1000 dollar rifle and a good deal at that but you're getting gouged pretty bad at 1400. They are dead to me. It will likely go through a threat up close (given no contact with bone), but most of its work is done before exiting. I usually have to take break between mags. The idea was to replace 9mm submachine guns for support troops and special operations units with something more powerful that wasnt a full-sized, Tactical Life Gun Magazine: Gun news, gun reviews and gun magazines for gun enthusiasts, military and law enforcement, You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our, ENTER TO WIN > Free Gun Friday for your chance to WIN the SIG Sauer P320 AXG Legion and Black Hills HoneyBadger Ammo, Anderson Manufacturing Kiger-9c Pro: Upgrades and EDC Ready, Stow it and Go: The Volquartsen 22 LR VT2 Takedown Rifle. Yes, we would have preferred a flat-top gas block with rail for attaching a folding front sight, and were not exactly sure how to connect a sling to the front end without pulling on the barrel, but were not sure there is much else wrong. Before we jump headlong into what the market holds, perhaps we should touch upon why you might want to go a 300 Blackout pistol. Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. As was the case with the M400 Classic, the front sight was not visible with the Tango4 optical scope mounted. Is there anything sweeter than these mighty mites? Still love Springfield but im sour on that line. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. The SIG Rattler is something special. Just Got this in my e-mail . Now I have Seven Springfield guns with Five Saint Victors . The Saint is one of the most user-friendly versions of this user-friendly platform. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. The stripped-down SBR version of the Rattler weighs in at 5.7 pounds. Sig Sauer. This gun has a picatinny rail system for accessories, a six-position collapsible stock, a flash suppressor and a single-stage trigger. Both of them are chambered in uncommon, proprietary bottleneck cartridges, the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, respectively. Got to check one out a few days ago at my LGS who's a Tier 1 Sig dealer. One new winner* is announced every week! Colt Model 1861 Special Musket: What's Its Value? I bought a Tread on a whim. Two of the loads were subsonic; Sigs 220-grain OTMs clustered into 0.7 inches while Lehigh Defenses 194-grain Maximum Expansion (ME) rounds created a 1-inch group. With the specs they listed, the barrel couldnt be much more than 6 inches, and it had to havethe ability to swap between the specd .300 BLK top end and one chambered in 5.56. We did, however, find the bolt catch to be weak. The selector switch is bilateral and works just fine. Purely on the rifle's features / traits wise, Update: im being told that both rifles are available for ~$1000 should I wait; i guess the extra $$$ is demand / price gouging for the saint. Whereas there is nothing special about the front sight, buttstock, or handguard, upgrades to the magazine release, safety levers, and the bolt catch are more expensive to manufacture or supply than a fancy handguard or buttstock. For sling attachment there was a fixed steel sling loop at the heel of the butt plate, or you could utilize the slot that ran parallel to the buffer tube beneath the cheek piece. Give a Gift Barrel-twist rate was 1:7, and breaking down the rifle revealed a reduced-mass hammer. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. SIG Sauer Introduces the New SIG Tread Snakebite SE. Choice of ammunition for AR-15s used to be limited by the 1:9-inch-twist barrel. Any ways I just bought the Springfield Saint Victor in .308 . The issue is, get it wrong, send a bullet yawling at the muzzle and youre contending with endcap and baffle strikes in your suppressor. I was able to get 10 hits out of 10 on the top portion of an IPSC silhouette at 100 yards with the Lehigh Defense load and Barnes subsonicswell within the designs parameters. However, on the PDW, the Reptilia grip and the provided 20-round magazines look perfect. Can't wait to find the price on this and see one in person . The bottom line? Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Our Suppressor Guru, seen here with a SIG Sauer SRD-762 on a SIG Rattler, provides some pointers. So was the grip and handguard. One set of Keymod holes was located on the underside at 6 oclock. The "Tread yellow marking" is just an mlok insert, mine didn't even come with one, but you can easily remove it. The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. Maybe i'll sell the .308 if they ship me a new replacement and get an M1A instead, but i'm not exactly dying to give that money right back to them after this fiasco. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). To find out if any of the above added up to improved performance, we tested for accuracy from the 100-yard line at American Shooting Centers in Houston. As to the brace, its a Tailhook Mod 2, an adjustable model that does an excellent job of settling in the gun. The first and third pics are the rifle I examined, but the second isn't. Suppressed though, that Saint Pistol is terrific. I plan on using it primarily for hunting and some plinking. Both suppressors were more effective than, say, a flash suppressor or muzzle brake, but dont expect the gun to be as quiet as those shown in the movies. But like you, I also bought the SA Saint Victor 300 BLK pistol, which is very well made. To carry the Rattler discreetly, I used Eberlestocks Combat Office Brief, which represents a typical messenger bag, as well as several other covert packs in my inventory, including some camera bags. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and looked better and had better brace . The Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX had fully expanded by 7 inches, leaving a perfectly mushroomed bullet weighing 108 grains at 26 inches. Reptilia sent me one of these compact grips late last year. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. The CMMG Mk4T was the tale of two rifles. As a PDW cartridge, the .223/5.56, unlike the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, is grossly inefficient. Meet the all-new Taurus Judge Executive Grade, a revolver featuring a hand-polished satin finish, presentation-grade wood grips, a brass rod front sight and an exceptional hand-tuned trigger. Probably, but not at 900 fps. The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. In the confusion the shot was released off line or as one might say, out of time. Operation was very smooth and secure. The Sig Enhanced is heavy and not as responsive as youd expect in a gun of this class, somewhat akin to a mil-spec job. .224 Valkyrie Small Precision Rifle Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know, Buyer Beware: Buying 'Bargain' Guns Can Be Risky. I found myself hooking my index finger around the front of it while shooting as opposed to actually using it as a hand stop. Top 300 Blackout Pistol Options For Every Budget, 5 Best AR-10 Options You Can Actually Afford (2023), Best .380 Pistol Options For Deep Carry (2023), 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). Shooting the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max 223 ammunition, we were rewarded with five-shot groups that measured an average of just 0.6 inch across. Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. Thanks Bio. Its perfect for indoor situations where 25 yards is a long shot and overpenetration is a concern. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. If the Mk4T had either of the triggers found on the SIG Sauer or Springfield Armory carbines, it might have been the accuracy champ of this test. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. This round was designed to offer terminal ballistics similar to the AKs 7.62x39mm while still being compatible with AR-style rifles, requiring only a barrel change. Measuring Performance A PDW is not a rifle. I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . Compare. The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. It boasts the nice extra of a forward flash diverter, clearing the line of sight for fast follow-ups and target acquisition. SA ars get a lot of shit from people but it has been a really good rifle. One answer would be to take advantage of the latest technology in terms of manufacturing, helpful features and improved ammunition. Now, we all know stripped down versions just aren't going to cut it, so after adding a Trijicon MRO, SIG SRD 762 QD can, a Magpul vertical grip, a Parker Mountain Machines BCD, and don't forget a fully-loaded magazine of 220 grain subsonic rounds, we have ourselves a stout 9.4 pound setup. I really liked the Blue TS2 ,so in the end she was getting one for me for a surprise for my birthday . Putting it into action required lifting it from its horizontal position. Taurus Marketing Manager Caleb Giddings highlights the features of the new Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum, a purpose-built revolver with a 10.5-inch barrel and an effective recoil-taming brake, with Guns & Ammo Executive Editor Joe Kurtenbach. I have a sig elite which is similar to the tread, no issues solid rifle. The second can was the Dead Air Sandman-K, which is slightly heavier at 12.8 ounces yet only 0.7 inches longer. The efficiency and versatility of barrels have been upgraded to take advantage of heavier bullets able to land a more effective blow at greater distance. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201for-carve-out/, http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685, https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017cal-gun-dealer, http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/5406606027600/, St. Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners, If this is your first visit, be sure to This gun was designed from the ground up to be as discrete as possible while retaining all the capabilities of the MCX. By 5george31 in forum Rifles Replies: 92 Last Post: November 3rd, 2016, 05:28 AM. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. Can the SIG MCX Rattler do it? Our best-of-test group measured 0.4 inch across. The buttstock was adjustable for length by compressing the lower panel running in line with the buffer tube. The free-floated handguard offered Keymod machining on three sides, and the Picatinny top rail extended 11 inches from the receiver. He called it a stutter. The trigger is Springfields flat trigger, first introduced on the Saint Victor line. Im a lefty so the gas hits me right in the face. The $1000 CMMG Mk4T may still use the M1 buttstock and grip, but the 416 stainless-steel barrel offered a 1:7 twist on the inside and a bead-blast finish on the outside. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. But we loved the buttpad and the overall contour of the stock. So much so that we almost took to calling it a three-stage trigger. On the M400, there is an extension that adds surface area in an L-shape, making it much easier to operate. In addition, the fit and finish of the operational parts, most important the consistency of the trigger, makes this carbine worth the extra money. Target right showed five A-zone shots. Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. The Judge has been promoted! Taylors & Company FS Tactical 1911: Now in 10mm! I actually sold my Sig m400 patrol 5.56 , And My Sig P320 . For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. The ambidextrous controls worked quite well, and the safety lever on the off hand did not interfere with the shooter, be he right-handed or left-handed. A PDW is not a rifle. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Target-left was placed 5 yards downrange, target-right 7 yards downrange, and the center target 10 yards downrange. But there is hope for me after seeing the new SnakeBite Tread 5.56 . The two most well-known modern PDWs are the FN P90 and the HK MP7. I suppose this is due, in part, to how much gas is escaping out the short barrel past the bullet instead of gathering force behind it as it would in a longer barrel. This video does make me feel better about Springfield. After our run with the Saint, all three targets showed five hits. Matte Black. .300 BLK vs 7.62x39mm Designed for rapid deployment from concealment, the MCX Rattler packs a punch in the .300 BLK configuration. PDW stands for personal defense weapon. It is not a term that Springfield Armory invented. Stocky's Owner Don Bitz walks David Faubion through the company's new rifle stocks for 2023. At 1,900 fps, youll still get a good permanent wound cavity, some temporary cavity and the ability to defeat armor in most cases. Taking into account the creep in the CMMG trigger, we patiently worked our way to the break. Like the MPX, the MCX uses a short-stroke gas piston system, which does away with the need for a buffer system, and the weapon can use a folding stock or no stock at all. Caliber + 300 BLK; 5.56 NATO; 7.62x39 . Springfield Armory Saint Victor. To find out what it was like to operate these guns at speed, we visited the Impact Zone Range in Hempstead, Texas for some timed close-quarters fire. Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. It may not display this or other websites correctly. This is why the gun world is awash in top-notch 300 Blackout pistols. That said, like every cartridge, it gains velocity out of longer barrels to a certain point. A spring detent pin was compressed to fold it down. Facing off in a handgun challenge featuring the smallest professional-grade enclosed red dot sight on the market, Eric and Tom put the Acro P-2 to the distance test by doing a walk-back challenge. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Granted you give up some ballistic performance, but gain a gat easy to transport and, yes, conceal (say in a backpack). Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. Also visible with the top end hinged away was the Accu-Tite tension system consisting of a synthetic non-marring screw that mated flush beneath the bottom of the connecting lug. It began in earnest in the late 1980s. And After shooting the CZ 75 Tatical sport orange I was in love . One thing I would like to point out that seemingly even many owners of the Maxim Defense SCW and larger CQB braces and stocks dont seem to know is that you only have to use the button to collapse it. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Jeff Bradley shows off the Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR) from Christensen Arms at SHOT Show 2023. Even though the Victor has a 9-inch barrel (1:7 twist), the last feature is a nice piece of mind. Want to optimize the hush on a 300 Blackout pistolor carbineits a subsonic ammunition affair. The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. I have builds from BCM, Springfield, Noveske and PSA. Compared to most everything else on the market, the 10.5-inch barrel (1:7 twist) pistol is an absolute Cadillac. It started expanding at about 6 inches and fragmented at 15, leaving just the lead core and base at 26 inches. Built with a premium nickel boron coated trigger, forged carrier, enhanced Melonite coated carrier group and a pinned gas block, every rifle is built for ultimate reliability. He is a gun owner and avid reloader from Colorado. Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. This eliminates the crack that coincides with the bullet leaving the muzzle caused by the projectile breaking the sound barrier.